The day-page-set for the talk in the ‘wiki-net’
Read with preceding explanations.
probably Dekiwiki could be made capable for the wiki-net?
MattisManzel:
That is: Read feeds from remote day-page-sets, put out feeds for local day-page-sets. Got to try it out.
This looks somehow promising (and complicated)
small icons “edit this page” starting the green title of all day-pages
MattisManzel:
Having small (12x12) icons “edit this page” starting the green title of all day-pages would be cool. Clicking the icon should take you directly to the edit-mode of the respective day-page. The green title itself continues to link to the day-page in read-mode. That would be useful and it would clarify that the day-pages are included into the mother page of the set and that they are editable. Hmm.
Like that, just above before the green 2008-03-14 (check mouse-over text and click, please):
The icon is only needed in the view from the mother-page of a day-page set (for this page talk). Only then the title of a day-page is green, only then it should have the icon before the title. When looking at the day-page directly the title is blue and there’s the standard edit button up to the right to edit it.
Having the icon without the function to open the day-page in edit-mode before every green title of a day-page would be also pretty fine. The icon makes people click and when they see the day-page directly they will understand. Opening in edit-mode on click would be even cooler, sure.
icons for the wikis on the NearMap
mattis^: hm, Sisters directory, you mean the NearMap?
(23:15:14) TheSheep: No, you set that directory name in your configuration, actually it’s an url prefix, http://www.oddmuse.org/cgi-bin/oddmuse/Near_Links#SisterSiteLogoUrl, you need to ask the hive admins, I guess.
(23:20:33) mattis^: All hive-admins are friends
There is problem 
MattisManzel:
Not too serious though, “little problem”. To evite grammatical chaos we should preferably stick to “wiki” as the word determining the article of an assembled word:
In English it has no consequences on the grammatical construction whether I use wiki-center / center-wiki or wiki-list / list-wiki, etc.
In German it has. “Liste” is female in German, wiki is neutrum (I use neutrum at least). Consequently talking about wiki-Liste you have to use the female article which tears it a lot over to the meaning of “list” and away from the meaning “wiki”. This creates eviteable confusion. It would be much clearer using (das) “Listen-wiki” instead of (die) “wiki-Liste” The only way to fix it is to rename wiki-list to list-wiki. And further on wiki-center to center-wiki. The term oddwiki has been too tightly linked together for me to dare to split it. I thought about odd-wiki, I remember. Well …
So, imagine please
And thinking further that German is one of the few languages having a third, neutral article it probably would be better to use “der wiki”, male article, like Alex does it - and like I do it already in Italian (il Venezia-wiki, …).
MattisManzel:
Replacing the old ‘eye of HAL’ wiki-net icon 
with the bee-comb one. 
Too many wiki-net icons, sorry.

hive-list of the repective wiki-center(s) included on the wiki-node
MattisManzel:
Yesterday I had the idea to include the hive-list-feed of the center wiki(s) a wiki belongs to into its wiki-node. That makes a list of probable neighbors which updates automatically kinda. I’m making good headway.

wiki-net hints
MattisManzel:
Ha! The hints we're given are “out of control” of a wiki-community. Likely it will be fellow or nearby communants or friends who “hint” a wiki. But perfect strangers can just as well do so. So it aint’t the hints a wiki-community is given that describe it (wiki-net). The choice of wikis on wiki-net hints does! Ha! Just like you can’t change the gossip of people but you can change who’s gossip you listen to.

‘wiki-net’
MattisManzel:
Hmm, a spambot seems to be targeting ‘wiki-net’: talk. Hmm.
Else I figured out that ‘wiki-net’ is this specific wiki about the wiki-net. When I made it was thinking about if it’s a good idea to call it wiki-net. Lion chose wiki-nodes for the wiki about wiki-nodes, I mean. Heck, I thought finally and just created it. Apostrophing one to be able to differentiate them is the best that comes to my mind now. Sorry.
Some correcting wiki-net to ‘wiki-net’ wikilandia-wide to be done still 
MattisManzel:
A red dot made from the eye of HAL instead of the star now. Oh, yes.
2007-07-03:
and I replaced it with the edit chalk icon. Basta con le cazzate.
Transclusion of the youngest day-page on the hive-list to a page hive-list on the main-wiki
MattisManzel:
Something that could be useful: A “module” than includes always and only the youngest daypage of a daypage-set located on another wiki into a page. Like that we could have an allways up-to-date wiki-list on the main-wikis of the hives. Transclusion of the youngest daypage on kabo-wiki-list: hive-list into kabo-wiki-hive: hive-list. When a new hive-list daypage is created it transcludes this new one instead.
On the list-wiki it’s HiveListPages? - a day-page set - whereas on the main-wiki it’s HiveList - a normal page. Hive List displays only the youngest day-page on HiveListPages?.
Difficult?
Also changing "blog" to "face" is is the air.
MattisManzel 2007-03-25:
No extra module needed it seems. Sorry for my ignorance. kabo-wiki-hive: hive-list
MattisManzel:
Thanks for playing with the css a bit, 85-130-164-xxx.broadband.actcom.net.il, no problem. I reverted it being used to this one. We have the css-sand-wiki for css-experiments, nevermind. I copied the css you worked on here over to the css-sand-wiki. It’s version 23. Copy it to a seperate page when you want to make sure that it’s not overwitten.
Have fun.

Hi all. We spoke on WikiNet during a BarCamp:BarCampParis7 workshop in Google France.
First french report is available here. Tomorrow, we will try to introduce WikiNet in a MashPit?. XWiki could be interested to join us. Currently thinking WikiNet could help to google out
Upcoming event a MashPit? WikiNet (hackfest) tomorrow in google. – ChristopheDucamp
MattisManzel:
I have been trying to write about the wiki-net server yesterday posting the link to #oddmuse and xterminus pointed me to http://planetplanet.org. I told mutante about it this morning and he made the planet wiki-net for s23-wiki: wiki-net changes - which is quite promising, I think.
The wiki-net is for wikis to poke each other a little more, like in the blogoshere. True.
Blogs are individually centered. A person owns them. This person has more influence on the blog than all other persons. Users of individually owned social software sites (blog) created a global network called blogoshere - why? To interact with each other, to poke each other, it’s more fun like that.
wikis are community-owned and -governed. They already imply interaction. That’s why a direct desire for a wiki-net - the equivalent for the blogoshere but for community-owned social software sites (wikis) didn’t appear similarily. It doubtlessly is of interest to create such though.
The basic difference between the two is the restriction of access to the owner for certain functions. On a blog only the owner can change what feeds are included and how the blogroll is shaped.
Building a wiki-net it’s important to remember that everybody must be able to change all parameters of all wikis in the wiki-net. They are community-owned. Because communities want to be dynamic, because they want to be able to change and develop they are open. Thus everybody can change all parameters. No exception.
I suppose I have no access to the planet wiki-net page for s23-wiki: wiki-net changes and can not change what changes-feeds of wikis are included on it.
I wonder If one could trigger the planet wiki-net directly from the youngest day-page in the wiki-net? So that everybody could change the feeds for the wikis included in it.
MattisManzel:
Jepp! WhoIsWatchingUsPages? is the counterpart to WikiNet driven by the information coming from the WikiNetServer. WikiNet shows whom we are watching and WhoIsWatchingUs? - Right! It also drives a section on WikiNetChanges and WikiNetFaces listing what other wikis currently have us on their wiki-net changes and wiki-net faces. And others maybe? Just wanted to note the idea.
MattisManzel:
The mist over hints we’re given seems to dissolve. You have to simply not only synchronize two pages but three:
I’m fairly sure this couuuuld all be automatized. Let’s make it move a bit manually to make see it couuuuuuuuld work, please.
MattisManzel: all talk instead of talk in the bar on the top for a page in CamelCase called TalkPages. JIIEKS!, how ugly and confusing, but, HA!, it will work. And if not it can be changed again. Anyhow.
It lead me to think about wiki-net talk. All the bubble of all the neighbors jammed into one page. Kinda like opening the window and letting the noise in. Gotta try it. You can’t know unless you experiment. I mean, ok, the privacy to talk within your wiki-community without being listened to, ok. But is it Homo 2.0 we’re going for or not? C’mon.
MattisManzel: Yo, I got tangled up in the wiki-net. Translating “who cares here?” to German and creating a WerKümmertSichHierSeiten set of day-pages I got tangled up. Happens, on oddwiki-Zentrum: was ist eine Tages-Seite? it happened. Translating the titles of day-page sets we get a French wiki-net, a German wiki-net, an English wiki-net an Italian wiki-net, … That’s not what we want. We want one big soup, not five of them or so.
Thus (question)
CamelCase-titels of day-page sets are in English. I won’t get too many of them.
Hmm. Having English CamelCase-titles for certain pages on a German wiki is awful ….
The question is how the wiki-net server can tell what is what.
A feed coming in with *WerKümmertSichHier? at the end can be identifies as a feed *WhoCaresHere? of a wiki in German, can it? And it can be adequately processed, can it?
We have to think about the functionality and a possible programming of the wiki-net server. I know too little about feeds and programming and might take wrong decisions now that cause a lot of eviteable work later.
I want cross-language capability for the wiki-net.
Let’s take a wiki in English. Some people care for it (are listed on “who cares here?”). Amongst these who care is a German and a Chinese.
By means of the wiki-net it should be possible to generate a dynamic list of all wikis that the core participants of the wiki also care for - that means a list of all wikis the core participants are also listed on a day-page set named WhoCaresHerePages? but also on German wiki’s day-page sets named WerKümmertSichHierSeiten? and the respective Chinese equivalent.
We have to think about what possible day-page sets could make sense and create a nice table of obligatory CamelCase-titles for these pages for all languages. So that one (in words one) wiki-net can work. As I said, they won’t be too many. I think it should be possible.
Continued on page-title conventions.
MattisManzel 2006-10-05: WhoCaresHerePages was renamed to WhoHelpsHerePages.
MattisManzel:
The wiki-net now starts to work also for the Mediawiki-engine. See s23-wiki: wiki-net changes. It still sorts a little weird but works without overflowing. Thx to mutante.
MattisManzel: Seems like mutante tamed the rss-extension for mediawiki. See at the end of
http://s23.org/w/index.php/Talk:RecentNearChanges
s23-wiki: wiki-net changes looks already nice now. Just it doesn’t sort by time merging the different wikis.
fr : première traduction amorcée sur MeatBall:WikiNetFr. Une RévisionParLesPairs sera toujours appréciée. L’idée semble toujours aussi dingue. Très enthousiaste à l’idée d’imaginer un futur WikiNet intégrant les MicroFormats
– ChristopheDucamp
MattisManzel:
What is the mechanism to keep pages longer on wiki-net faces - as an example? When I edit the respective blog-pages on the different wikis their blog-entries show up here again. Tried that before. But after a while (few days) it says again that there is no data delivered. How come? There is no days=n specification. Could one make them stay longer on the wiki-net faces here? Somewhat like six weeks or so?
MattisManzel: Yesterday I read some of the stuff around the “eye of Hal”-affair on cw again. That’s easy now.
The idea wasn’t ready yet a year back. Now it is.
You make a new section in the machine code block of the day-pages on wiki-net.
Modification for wiki-net changes and wiki-net blogs is free.
In the new section a new entry is added on top and the last one gets removed.
It is: The wiki’s short term attention for other wikis.
Having wiki-net changes and wiki-net blogs is not enough. These two will be relatively stable directed to relatively stable neighborhood.
Someone passing by, thinking “hey, these folks realy would be interested in xyz-wiki and do not seem to know about it” wouldn’t change the current wiki-net on this wiki if it only contained wiki-entries for wiki-net changes and wiki-net blogs. The person would if there would be a “short-term attention” section. The name is too long. It’s not it yet. It’s not “eye of Hal” either 
WikiNetFingerzeig? gave me WikiNetHints WikiNetCues? WikiNetPointers? and WikiNetTips? and for German the even Better WikiNetWink?. What you think?
Remember the WikiNetServer and that the “recommended” wiki put in the short term attention of another wiki is notified about being “watched”. It will automatically have a link to the “watching” wiki on its page who is watching us in the section we are currently in the short term attention of the following wikis:
MattisManzel: Having an own wiki on the wiki-net idea to demonstrate page functionalities and experiment a bit without disturbing the every-day’s business of a center-wiki for a wiki-hive seemed appropriate to me. So I made wiki-net. Let’s continue the general discussion on oddwiki-center: wiki-net / talk here.
Later maybe we create [how to add a wiki to the wiki-net] or so
(17:33:00) mattis^: No idea why the feed doesn’t work. I copied it just like kensanata did it. ???
(17:35:27) mattis^: on the homepage / blog it work, but not included on the wiki-net blogs.
(17:38:50) kensanata: mattis^: rss feed are cached as well, in order to not drain resources.
(17:39:10) kensanata: add “?cache=0” to the url like
http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/WikiNet/WikiNetBlogs?cache=0
it shows that it will work in a while.
(17:39:47) mattis^: ah, ok. That’s fine.
(17:40:21) mattis^: cool
Yalla!
The center-wikis are a good place to create a complete list of the rss’s of all wikis in a “zone”, in a certain context, like city-wikis. The center-wiki anyhow lists them all (that listing is cross-hive btw). If now every wiki would for example once a day automatically update the complete list of wikis within its zone and compare that list to all the rss feeds in the zone for specifically the page wiki-net (remember it lists all the wikis in a wiki’s current “focus”) - maybe also once a day -, then we could at least make wikis know on a page who is watching us? which other wiki from within the zone put an eye on it (better: put it on its page named wiki-net).
Maybe we could also somehow aggregate the “zones”, so that at least after a while a wiki is notified automatically when any other wiki in the wiki-net is watching it. A delay of a day or two (for now) wouldn’t be that much of a problem actually.
MattisManzel: Moved in here from oddwiki: wiki-net / talk after creating wiki-net.
It takes a while to make such work on a wiki. I put some wikis in the neigborhood to demonstrate the function.
I deactivated the silly voting ideas on wiki-Woodstock: wiki-net. Nontheless.
We need a page - wiki-net - to list our favorite neighbors, the one currently in our “focus”. It should create a specific feed, a wiki-net-feed, different from our normal recent changes feed. It will be neccessary for that thing I had started under the non-appropriate name eye of HAL on community-wiki: recent changes readers. The idea was to be able to make a wiki know, automatically, when another wiki “abonnates” the feed of it.
That’s (not) urgent, (don’t) keep it in mind. 