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MattisManzel:
Sweeetie sweetie odd-wiki. This is a test.
MattisManzel:
A while ago in February I made http://openphotovr.org/#a312
Geschichten-über-Lehrer-wiki / stories-about-teachers-wiki
MattisManzel:
[de] Lehrer, Lehrerinnen, jeder hat eine Geschichte auf Tasche über einen Lehrer aus der Schulzeit. Geschichten, die Bewunderung ausdrücken, Geschichten, wie mans einem Lehrer mal wieder besonders derb gezeigt hat als sein Schüler. Jeder hat diese Geschichte zig mal erzählt. Dafür ein wiki. Das Geschichten-über-Lehrer-wiki vielleicht?
[en] Teachers, everybody can tell a story about a teacher from school time. Stories that express admiration, stories that tell how bad a teacher has been mocked by a pupil. Everybody has told this story dozens of times. A wiki for that. The stories-about-teachers-wiki maybe?
Hi Mattis, a very important aspect for the future of wikis is, how well wikizens in general and specifically the 200 million OLPC-kids can integrate their income dimension into wiki activities.
Wikizens can help each other to become financially independant, such that they need not waste their energies for employers, who’s goals are not compatible with the wellbeing of mankind and the wellbeing of the planet.
In this sense I started a WeNameInitiative at the wiki of a socially engaged registrar name.com. Due to the friendly and constructive admin Cottontail it appears to become a success. What about participating in this process, belinking all involved pages. – fridemar <→ http://wiki.name.com/index.php/User_talk:Fridemar.
– FridemarPache PS.: What about a better representation of the double-arrow “<->” for bilinked pages?
MattisManzel:
G’ morning, Fridemar. Thanks for the hints to your lively activities. A first glimpse leaves me impressed but confused, I admit. I’ll get deeper into it soon. The upcoming days will be rather busy with “real life” stuff for me.
FridemarPache:
Hey, hey Mattis, this is “real life” stuff
; it’s the difference between “wiki as a hobby” and “wiki as a profession”. It’s wiki, where real income is realized for the wikizens, a wiki, where each peer is each other’s employer and employee, where “scale of economics” is realized in the community, just like in an ordinary company or institution. We have to dig deeper into it here and now (hopefully with you at least “soon”).
BiLinks, the inclusion of wiki-lists on the wiki-node
Just made a longer comment on BiLinks, but got: “Nichts wurde geaendert”. Wie schade. .. Fridemar.com (OpenID)
MattisManzel:
Hi Friedemar. I moved your text above from my Agenda which actually is for my “Agenda” - and might be included elsewhere (see WikiNetAgendas) - here into the “talk” which is never included elsewhere and which is good for local talk.
I dont’t quite understand “Nichts wurde geaendert”, I never got it anywhere. On what page did you get it using what browser?
I remember when you came up with the BiLinks idea. It was on a WikiNode. I liked it, I probably didn’t quite understand it but did something else rather spontaneously then that semt to me to have a similar effect. You wanted to have “likely” neighboring wikis listed was my impression. On the wikis I care for there are wiki-nodes. On them you find a section telling what center-wiki the respective wiki has a home page in. Usually a wiki has a home page in the center-wiki of the wiki-hive it sits in for the working language it uses (but there can be more center-wikis). For my personal wiki it is OddWikiCenter:MattisManzelWiki. The center-wikis have a wiki-list (OddWikiCenter:WikiList). What I did was to include the wiki-list into the wiki-node. That means every wiki has a list of “potential” neighbors included into its wiki-node telling what other wikis are sitting in the same wiki-hive using the same working language. See the WikiNode here.
There are “topical” center-wikis as well. An example: the hack-Babel-wiki (KaboWiki:HackBabel/FrontPage) which gathers wikis from different wiki-hives about hacking language. If a wiki has a home page in the hack-Babel-wiki the wiki-list of the hack-Babel-wiki (KaboWiki:HackBabel/WikiList) gets included into the wiki-node of the wiki resulting in more “possible neigbors” to be automatically listed (and to be automatically updated too btw). Example kabo-wiki-hive / slang-wiki: wiki-node (KaboWiki:Slang/WikiNode). This wiki-node includes the wiki-lists of two center-wikis: The kabo-wiki-center-en (for the kabo-wiki-hive the slang-wiki sits in) and the hack-babel-wiki.
Center-wikis have a day-page-set wiki-list (and thus put out a wiki-list-feed) and they do seriously try to be a common platform for some kind of wikis. If not both I list them under “other wikis”.
However, any way of moving related wikis closer to each other is good for OneBigSoup. BiLinks do so and therefore I like the idea.
Mattis…
I need a bit of help.
Very recently a Russian spider changed the CSS for my hive element. I found three revisions and made the mistake of playing around with them a bit since they actually looked pretty good. Unfortunately, the last one I looked at did not have a “save” link at the bottom of the page.
As a result, I can no longer Save any page, so I am effectively “locked out” since I cannot fix the site by replacing the css.
All I can think of so far, is to try the “replace this page with a text file”.
Can you help or should I try to contact Alex? Either replacing the current CSS or any other suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks, Hans
MattisManzel:
I saw the damage and I told Alex. Maybe you can install an onboard css and rebuild your original one from that? Sorry about it.
Mattis… Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll try it as soon as I’m done with my next meeting.
…
Tried this, but without any luck. I also tried a …copy:http… but that also did not work.
I guess I’ll just have to wait for Alex to have some time.
Thanks for the suggestion.
– Hans
Yea!! Solved it! Thanks for listening – Hans
MattisManzel:
Ha! Including the hive-list-feed of the center-wiki(s) on wiki-nodes.
The “cell” of the hive-mind: wiki
MattisManzel:
I announced a lightning talk for 24C3.
Hi Mattis: i do not know what the Blogger Cena on Nov 9 will be like http://bloggercenaveneta.pbwiki.com/FrontPage
i hope it will not end up in yet another geek get together; i am bringing my wife because she is a “realist” .. i can read in her face when things sound too bloody boring
i expect some kind of teaming around the use of blogs AND WIKIS may pop up from that social gathering (convivio)
i wonder if you could enter you name in the sidebar of the pbwiki bloggercenaveneta page with a link to a neat wiki page of yours (in English - and German if you wish - i’ll make the Italian translation) .. saying what your expectations are
C U soon 
luigi
MattisManzel, 2007-11-07:
Thanks Luigi. No expectations, I had to cut down on that the recent years, sorry. Qualche correzioni sul mio Italiano sbaliato magari. In Italiano ho avviato: Venezia-wiki, Agordino-wiki, oddwiki-centro-it, kabo-wiki-centro-it, Italiano-semplice-wiki. Il Venezia-wiki ha già le nuove pagine-madre “turbo” (ridotto sul minimo) per le composizioni pagine-del-giorno.
Mi piace la idea da mettere una lista di cose su quale si parlerá nella barra laterale come lo fai sul pbwiki per la cena. Potrebbe essere anche una composizione di pagine-del-giorno. In questo caso ci sarebbe un “su cosa si parlerá”-feed …
C U sooner 
A presto Mattis, se vedon (anzi ci incontreremo per la prima volta!)
Luigi
cheers for the help. hopefully i’ll add some new stuff but i’m actually embarking on a big adventure around SE asia in 2 days. me and a friend are travelling around cambodia, vietnam, china and laos for 4 months so i’ll have to put all my wikis on hold. hopefully add some stuff from various internet cafes.
jonty
Hey Mattis, it’s Jonty. I stole your css from here for a new wiki I started making. How do you get the title to appear up there ^ (Mattis-Manzel-wiki)?
Cheers.
Oh, the new wiki is here http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/WikiRPG/HomePage but I haven’t done much yet.
¡Mattis! It’s sbp from #rdfig/#swig… I haven’t seen you about for ages, but I just noticed your name in connection with Gobby support. I’ve been thinking about implementing a Gobby client in python, but I’m stuck finding docs for the 0.4 protocol. Have you done your 0.4 implementation yet? Got any pointers? [Edit: nevermind, I got confused somewhere down the line. Doesn’t look like you’re working on a Gobby implementation yourself, but perhaps you have some pointers anyway…]
MattisManzel:
Hi, sbp. I just use Gobby, RadomirDopieralski set up the standalone server we use and the web-preview. It’s 0.4. He knows python and can help you, I guess. I can’t (sure). We’re still tinging btw. CollabEditor:TingPages
edit-icon green
MattisManzel:
OK, I went green with the right-handed Arabian / Hebrew writers. Green is cool now that there are the feed-icons in the side-bar and writing English from the right to the left is excusable.
back, BPhO?-wiki
MattisManzel:
Enourmously nice to have a personal wiki and a couple of others back after a several day downage on communitywiki.org. “Sorry for the inconvenience”, you say in such situations. Happens, the nasty little djins on the line … Thanks again to the EpFarm?-folks.
What about a Berliner-Philharmoniker-wiki, BPhO?-wiki? I bet they have no. 
http://eartwiki.org/cgi-bin/hive/BePhil/StirnSeite zum Beispiel.
(Ehemalige) Mitglieder des Orchesters aktiv on-line
Mattis, I just left you a message here: http://www.aboutus.org/UWEB:Status/Mattis_Manzel and then realized that was silly because that message in it’s entirety is simply this:
Hi Mattis, do you have time/inclination to help this process move forward before the WikiOhana WikiDeveloper? meeting today? If so, please see [1]. Thanks! TedErnst
MattisManzel, 2007-07-04:
Thanks Ted for the note. I’m into wiki-net up to my collar currently, a new day-page-set wiki-idea is coming up. I haven’t got the time and neocortex-RAM to help at the moment. The universal edit button rocks! Thanks for you guys poll-power. I’ll jump in when finished with my latest ideas, sorry. 
MattisManzel:
Hmm. We need icons for all feeds.
changes-feed, the feed for the page changes - the classical rss-icon is good for the changes
the feed for the page-set face - a classical smilie 
the feed for Mattis’ to do-list - a hammerAll as simple as possible in white on the classical orange rss-feed background. When they work even 12 x 12 px they’re good.
There’s a facebook group "wiki-net" btw.
A while ago TheSheep made icons already. Then the eye of HAL was default as a background. I’m not sure about that anymore. Maybe it’s a good idea however?
I’ll find sheep’s icons and move the page to WikiNet:FeedIcons later.
MattisManzel, 2007-07-02:
Continuing on WikiCampCenter:AllFeeds and WikiNet:WikiNetIcons.
Versuch mit Mediawikis neuem trackback rumzupetern.
http://84.16.233.231/w/trackback.php?article=Wiki_hive
klappt noch nicht.
Später
Hmm. If you could define a degree of publicity for a post in the day-page-set face. If you could say “if five or more other wikis have this page-set face on their page wiki-net faces, then I want it on my wiki’s wiki-net faces too. Meanwhile I was still thinking.
Or when five other wikis in your wiki’s wiki-net have it on their wiki-net faces - what about that? I want that a wiki automatically is notified when something get’s “hip” in its (self-chosen) neighborhood. Sorry. I would like it if … , please. 
da soup, please
MattisManzel:
So what are wikis? They’re people. Like you, people with a name, and me. They’re dead framework without people, don’t you think I wouldn’t know that!
A wiki is composed of people. These people are interested in and contribute to other wikis - probably. I wanna know which these wikis are.
I wanna know which the wikis are I am contributing to! I wanna click my name on a “wikilandia map” and see all the wikis I’ve recently been active on high-lightened according to my activity on them. I wanna click a wiki and see all the other wikis the people it is composed of are also active on. I want to step through the entire wikilandia. I wanna map of all people and all wikis in wikilandia.
‘n sorry for pushing. It’s for a good purpose. 
feeded editable titles
MattisManzel:
This is a note. But it seems too important to me to put it on notes. So I put it on talk.
on irc.freenode #oddmuse:
mattis^: couldn’t one put the editable title of a page into an own feed? And make links to this page, whereever - locally or anywhere else in wikilandia - show the feeded editable title? So when the community decides to change the title it changes all over?
Agreeing on a link language (not LinkLanguage) is the idea.
kensanata: that’s what xterminus’ extension does, I believe.
mattis^: sounds good. I mean that something like that is on the way. It’s pretty much of a change to wikis I guess: showing feeded editable titles.
RadomirDopieralski: I couldn’t position the (formerly pink) “edit today’s talk” link consistently in all browsers (it was raised in Opera and lowered in Firefox, and somewhere in the middle in Microsoft Internet Explorer), so I went ahead and made it highlighted in a different way. I hope you like it. It is possible to have more “Pink” links, but it doesn’t look as good then, because the stars are on exact the same level – I should find some way of varying that.
MattisManzel: We are about to rearrange the css. The old one only did properly fine in firefox. Things might be a bit messy for a while.
Thanks for your patience.
Hi & thanks for your note on my talk page about needing two lines to save. I hadn’t figured it out, was very puzzled. I appreciate the transcluded messages page too; not sure if that was your doing. Laura
I tried saving this message and got the same problem. Does word-wrap not count for a second line? Laura
MattisManzel: I wikipediani italiani ed io a wikimania 2005 a Francoforte. Sono il primo da destra seduto.
The Italian wikipedians and I on wikimania 2005 in Frankfurt. I’m the first one sitting to the right.
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MattisManzel: Christmas 06, we’re letting the ropes. From now on we’re sailing. We have prepared well for this journey.
Mattis:
Please see http://www.communitywiki.org/en/2006-11-27. I would appreciate any comments you might care to make, especially regarding …
Thank you, Mattis, for taking the tthe time to post.
While you continue pondering these matters, can you comment if you think the above statements regarding Oddmuse being a ‘temporary’ site are still valid or are they out of date? I suspect you think it will be relatively permanent, if only because you are obviously investing a lot of time in what you are doing here.
I would appreciate your opnions on this, before I go further and approach Alex more formally.
MattisManzel: Hans, thanks for insisting
I answered on community-wiki: 2006-11-27.
WikiEquator
Myrtone:Quick question about site policies, I do condiser editors here to inccocent until they prove guilty, do you assume honesty. I wonder, how would you deal with, eg PersonalAttacks?, LegalThreats?, etc. Do you spread WikiLove?. Also, my understanding is that Today’s Talk exists in the WikiNow (or more correctly, in the BlikiNow?). What exactly are the differeces between WikiCulture and BlikiCulture?, are the both similarly distictive, even if each is in it’s own way.
MattisManzel, 2006-11-23: Hi Myrtone, thanks for the guts to write on this page. There is no BlikiCulture?. In spring 06 I dropped on the css Laurent Lunati wrote for the fete-d'internet-wiki and I liked it a lot and began to experiment with it. In the following months I made a couple of dozens of wikis using and adapting the css and developed a model for a syndication-based exchange of information amongst neighboring wikis called wiki-net. I did not care about motivating contributors as I had something in mind that needed to be shaped, it took a while and was a lot of work. Only MarkDilley once commented something - unfortunately on the MessagesFromOddWiki - a communication page for the entire odwiki-hive - I moved it to a day-page, Mark got that wrong and didn’t continue to write. So yes, WikiLove? - wiki-Woodstock was a pointer in that direction some time ago already. WikiLove?, yes. But there aren’t but some ghost-villages ‘til now. Ours are the only human voices in them nowadays, kinda 
Personal attacks, legal issues, I heard about that. Let’s see. Maybe it isn’t quite as bad as many assume.
When I started with wiki on Meatball not really having understood about the page-history yet I hated not to know when something was written (after having understood about the page-history it was still unpractical). A three year old thought that was overcome long ago has the same presence as a brandnew one. And to find out who is speaking (the most important information probably) I had to jump to the end of the contribution and then back to the beginning to start reading it. In verbal offline-communication you see who is speaking or you can tell where the words you hear come from before understanding the contents. I’m just proposing some changes I personaly concider improvements and I’m not very successful doing so, know?
Actually wiki-net: wiki-net-server is another proposal. Not the contents (k, that too) but the structure of the page.
The way it is typically done on wiki today means: The more talk is added (and people tend to add talk instead of refactoring the document mode) the more distant (physically in scrolling distance) the two “hot zones” of a page get. The hot zones are: the document mode on top (often outdated and insufficiently cared for and therefore not really hot anymore) and the end of the page (you reach if after endless scrolling). On my proposal-page the hot zones are close to the equator of the page. The old talk is deep down on it, the new thoughts are right below the condensed document mode. Maybe one could easily get used to that and take advantage of it? (wheel-mice would last longer for example).
New ideas are well placed on today’s talk. Answers to issues from past days - usually within the 7 day range - threads don’t get too old, so they are still relatively close to the equator - add at the end of the respective day-page and for politeness-reasons you add a day-stamp, so people see you answered some days later. When a thread gets older than a week it will likely be moved to its own page (or even sub-day-page-set). It’s also useful to find titles for day-pages “preparing” them for being a proper wiki-page early. Day-pages are better memorizable when subtitled.
Btw, (as you’re one of the Melbourne-wiki folks) I realize there is seemingly a certain chauvinism calling the deviding line between document mode and thread mode the “equator”. Explicitely: Northern-hemisphere / document mode is n o t better than southern-hemishere / thread mode. Both are neccessary and together shape a page / planet earth.
(subtitle WikiEquator?)
Yes I am one of the Melbourne Wiki folks. I would like to know, if us MelbourneWiki-folks could use this site as our message board. -Myrtone-
MattisManzel: Sure. I mean not the Mattis-Manzel-wiki, but a Melbourne-wiki on oddwiki.
Go to Main:Startup type Melbourne, click go and you got it. http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/Melbourne/HomePage will be the url. If you like, gimme some hours to blikify and wiki-netify it. If you want to do it (or something else) yourself, fine enough. First Mediwiki / Oddmuse- hybrid, hehe.
Likely you just want a message board - that’s what you wrote
. Just a talk so to say. Should be possible. And everbody whereever and whenever can copy interesting threads on the message board over to the Melbourne-wiki. A very short explanation on syntax differences between Mediawiki and Odmuse is obligatory. I think it’s good when people learn foreign languages.
I’m not quite sure how to blikify or wiki-netfy it, remember I am not that familiar with OddMuse and am used to MediaWiki. So maybe you could start it off. Myrtone
MattisManzel: No. You have to. For magical reasons. Just the bare creation of the wiki. After that it’s different. Follow the advices I gave you above please. It’s fun and won’t take you longer than a minute. Thanks for creating your wiki.
Sorry, but I don’t really understand css that well, I tried to copy the contents of yours, but it look too much like your bliki for now. Myrtone
MattisManzel: Ecco: Continuing on Melbourne-oddwiki: talk / 2006-12-01.
I have a problem with this site, sometimes I try to insert legitimate content (like “what is this site?”) and when I preview I get an “edit denied” page telling me that the page contains “banned content.” Could someone helpme?
-myrtone-
MattisManzel: Hi myrtone. Spam is very annoying. Most spam are one liners. So Alex forbid one liners. You cannot save
hello
you can save
hello .
Just write two lines and everthing is fine. Thanks for trying.
Myrtone:I wonder why you don’t install the passwords exentension availible at Alex’s site, would that help? I would much rather create an account here that have to type in my username for each edit, although this does happen automatically if I have “cookies” enabled.
MattisManzel: Alex has a Wunderkiste full of extensions I should take the time to explore for a while already but I never did as the few extensions I know are still spinning in my head. Password in any case doesn’t sound cool to me. A password devides the world into those who have it and those who don’t. Whereas wiki is to give access. Our editable SideBar and GotoBar give access. Creating a new wiki without being asked questions [1] gives access. The css is open - access. Minimum is having to type your name once, c’mon
And community-wiki cookies don’t hurt, do they?
Very interrsting, Oddmuse has no name signing code, just type your name in CamelCase, if it has InterCaps or otherwise in [[FreeLink]] format. -Myrtone
MattisManzel: Agree. It’s like asking somebody for his name once. Not asking for his name and his passport. That’s what policemen do.