As of 2007-05-24, the RnA? oddmuse Wc:WikiHive has achieved operational status.
- The next development stage requires refinements to the HwoPages architecture to accomodate MicroContent blocks that span many Oddmuse environments.
This page, and its related pages, anticipates that there may be enough interest emerging in collaborating to build a more robust infrastructure, that it makes sense to organize the supporting thoughts. It is very much a WiP, which makes a Summary a ‘rhetorical’ question, at this stage.
- Start by …
- creating a basis for a blikiNet MicroContent location strategy.
- since oddmuse prettyLink markup is rendered properly…
- ThereCanBeOnlyOne? may work and even help…
- avoid edit collisions by relying on the existing editLock methods to resolve attempts to concurrently edit the same Primary MicroContent block.
- reviewing …
- expanding a centralized version of some of the related text.
- Extending the (sub)page structure to focus on specific needs; leaving this page as a bit of a TOC. Perhaps …
- confirm that a specific Style is likely needed to recognize the particular needs of shared environments.
- Alternatively, it will be necessary to incorporate CSS with the source text that is being transcluded.
- This page is obviously going to need to be restructured, probably as a set of MicroBlock(s).
- Several design alternatives are beginning to appear.
- Inevitably, it’s going to be necessary to put together a Plan that defines Objectives and their target Dates.
- Hwo’s Objectives emerged from …
- Collaboration interests & the need to provide associates with the ability to create Content.
- the Page library project(s) - which may be reduced to nothing more than a large HTML & image data space.
- Sam is offering “open source” (LINUX, APACHE, …) hosting services that may include Virtualization technologies.
- DavidCary wants improved reliability (which may be created via cost-shared centralization, or distributed designs)
- BlikiNet 2007-02
- Collaboration via MicroContent may be more effective than traditional Wikis.
- Blogs appear to be draining Wiki activity
- Net content ‘harvesting’ methods can be automated much more easily via …
- spiders (google)
- ‘rendered’ version scraping
- Annotation technologies allow Groups of ‘invisible’ lurkers.
- Some of the Hwo Needs include …
- Configuration independance may be needed to avoid conflicting wishes regarding the setting of Configuration Options.
- …
- Confirmed that Sam’s bliki can be a source of MicroContent TransClusion(s).
- Needs … Control of the bliki parameters …
- rendering of ExternalTransclusion hyperlinks.
- …
- My focus should be on …
- Page linking
- Page building (TransClusion), rather than other Authors (Start by assuming they can contribute HTML)
- not the OS, or DB until these are needed or become trivial to upgrade.
- LocalNames is likely to be important.
Temporary Discussion
Hans, I just wanted to clarify that, for the short term, if you are interested in getting your own BlikiNet (or WikiHive) going now, I know that if we host this on my gridserver that it will not dominate the resources of that server. Just wanted to come right out and say that in case you were waiting for me to actually offer this. I would charge a partial hosting fee, and a few hours for set up, domain mapping, etc.
Maybe it would be worthwhile for us to chat about this on the phone first, just to accelerate (my) understanding what you are looking for right now? --SamRose
Sam:
Thank you for taking the time to make this offer. I have been considering this suggestion for quite some time and do appreciate your initiative in this matter.
- I agree that we should discuss this, and I’ll try to get ready to do so, as quickly as possible.
- I’ll likely start by collecting my thoughts in this environment, just so I make the best possible use of your time.
- When it becomes apparent that I’ve thought things through enough, we can switch to email or to voice.
- Based on my current work load, I expect that will likely be early next week, assuming that may be convenient for you.
– HansWobbe
P.S. Did you notice that Alex posted regarding related issues in the MAIN area?
[070309] (confirm that the use of the WxWikiServer Footnote markup is benign in this environment.)
- Is it really necessary to add these date stamps since the information can be derived from the Diffs.
- A number of these …hostingOffer thoughts are pertinent within the SamRose OcBm? context and could be incrporated. [[2007-03-13_hostingWhB?]]
- BlikiNet thoughts - consider using a Cloud that is staggered like this to build a Map that allows Authors to plugin their efforts.
- This really should be set up as a transclusion.
- Perhaps this fits into … CpsRc ; …
copied from CommunityWiki/... (Wc:...)
[new
avidCary:2007-02-14 02:54 UTC] I’m glad Wikiindex is back online. For any wiki other than wikiindex, perhaps putting contact information in its wikiindex entry would be a good idea. Or would http://Aboutus.org/ be a better place?
[new:HansWobbe
- David: I’ve been thinking for quite some time that it would be good to have a second Oddmuse WikiHive like the one that Alex provides for the ‘bliki’s.
- SamRose has implemented one for his Social… initiatives.
- I would like one that I can …
- open up for use by other business associates, without worrying about “leeching” bandwidth and other consumable resources (disk space, processor time, etc…)
- It believe it should be possible to “mirror” various blikis, provding a more effective ‘fault-tolerant’ environment since any single system failure should be automatically able to catch up, whenever it somes back on line.
- Sam has asked me to make some notes about what my requirements for such a system wold be, since I have stated several times that I am very interested in funding it, but currently lack some of the the skills I suspect are needed to install and maintain it.
- I hope you see this interjection as a well intended expression of interest, and not as an intrusion.
- – HansWobbe
[new
avidCary:2007-02-14 02:54 UTC] Good points.
- “leeching” – an even more precious resource is human time.
- “mirror” – When the primary system fails, being redirected to a read-only mirror would be better than the “server not found” error we have now. (Using services such as Wikipedia
ynamic_DNS). Later I hope we implement systems that are even better than that. - I hope that we can get enough people interested in this project that no one gets overloaded. I hope that we can lower the barrier to contributions such that people – even ones not willing to give us a lot of time – can still help us out by contributing rack space, hardware, bandwidth, disk space, bits of code, etc.
- It is possible that some of your requirements may conflict with some of my requirements. In that case, I would be happy to help you build your system, and for you to help build my system, ending up with 2 distributed wiki.
- We want to spread the disk space and bandwidth load over as many people as possible, right? Is releasing the source code under some Open Source license the best way to get the distributed wiki installed on as many machines as possible?
- What is the next step?
SamRose:
Hans, just so you know, BlikiNet or WikiHive is just a matter of wiki configuration and a choice of content style sheet. You can actually have both under the same roof, as you see with OddWiki.
I can host this for you, if you’d like, and I can even set up a “Pilot” Hive today, in fact. We can talk about costs here, or on http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/HomePage
A few questions (you may not know the total answer, but at least we can get the ball rolling on designign this for you
): Do you want the Wikis openly editable, or closed (pw to edit)? What list/kinds of features are looking for?
Also, MicroContent and TransClusion should be no problem. I have just now really wrapped my head around your idea of collaborating via MicroContent. I am very intrigued by this, and would love to experiment with you to develop the ideas more. Plus, it would be neat to eventually make actual MicroFormats part of this MicroContent. Although, right now the only MicroFormats supported by OddMuse are xfn and rel-tag via tagging module. I think Alex is working on hCard. I would also like to see hCalendar.
DavidCary: I am also interested in your idea. Although, I wonder if we can drag people like Alex into being interested as well, since implementing this will require some coding to the wiki engine itself?
Seems like there some different ways that it could be accomplished. An auto-mirror might be a kind of simplier way to at least get the idea off the ground, though. Seems like you would have to install the correct wiki scripts for each engine on the server. So, I we would all need to install OddMuse to serve OddMuse wiki pages, MoinMoin for MoinMoin, etc.
Or, OddMuse could maybe be written to access pages from many sources. Hmmm…this will probably be a very big undertaking either way. But, it’s a cool idea and I am interested in it.
I have thought about this mirroring idea. it led me to another thought: that people can cluster their servers together to act like one big server (quoted from http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/2007-02-20_Talk):
This whole thing also makes me think about how Google distributes, mirrors, and serves it's search data. Also known as the Wikipedia:Google_File_System (GFS).
I have heard of ways to take different co-located Apache webservers and combine them into a distributed serving cluster. This is, I think, what we are really talking about here. UltraMonkey may be one sultion. But I have no experience setting that up. Although, that doesn’t mean we could not experiment with it and see what we can come up with.
See also:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/software/index.html
It would be interesting to have a conversation with Linux/UNIX admins who’ve already had experience with LinuxVirtualServer? to see what recommendations or feedback they might have.
UltraMonkey? is interesting, because it can cluster servers with any operating system to gether. This seems like one of the best ways to go about doing this, to me.
Also, for mirroring, this looked interesting: http://www.supersparrow.org/ss-0.0.0/ /.