I’m sorry, I don’t see how consciousness benefits any of this.
At all.
Please, explain to me, why I can’t be run entirely on automatic.
Please, explain to me, why anyone has to experience anything.
Tell me, just one whit, of why your experiencing what you do, has anything to add to anything that you do.
The universe could operate perfectly fine, in a void, made entirely of perfect computation.
Nothing is gained by experience. Nothing at all.
It can all happen as pure computation.
Do you guys get this?
Do you all understand?
Because if you guys get this, then all this discussion is totally moot.
See also: Wiki:WhatIsConsciousness” <– No! Wiki:LeibnizianDefinitionOfConsciousness, Wiki:QualiaAreReducible, …
Pull “Wiki:WhatIsConsciousness” out of this list, because we already declared on that page, that when we are talking about “Consciousness” in that context, that we are not talking about the Consciousness that we are talking about here.
Look, I am someone who strongly believes that we’re going to see super-smart AI. I’d personally like to merge with computers. (Ask yourself, “Do I want a better User Interface?” If the answer is “Yes,” then it’s just a few short hops to wanting to merge with computers.)
I think one day, not too far, roughly 20-50 years in the future, we’re going to see computers that are way more intelligent than humans.
But you must understand, that we’re not going to make one inch in progress towards understanding what Consciousness, big C consciousness, really is.
We’re going to learn a lot about what we’ll call “Living Systems.” We’re going to learn a lot about complexity. We’re going to learn a lot about how brains work. We’re going to learn a lot about language, and processing, and all these things.
But unless you’re willing to understand and recognize what Consciousness is, what the thing is behind that symbol, we’re not going to get much further in figuring out what creates it.
And when you understand what the thing is behind that symbol, then you realize that we are f-u-c-k-e-d.
Because if you really realize what it is, then you realize just how totally superfluous it is. How utterly evolutionarily un-necessary it is. And you also realize just how immaterial it is.
And that means that you’re in spooky territory.
And as much as we’d like to get out of spook-ville, the best efforts only end up with even spook-ier ville: the idea that we don’t exist.
And it’s so clearly false, you can reject it on the face of it.
Most people choose not to, and would much rather accept the spooky idea that we don’t exist. (Because it fits their models of the world better. It’s convenient when you can explain everything, except this one thing, to just smudge off that spooky thing.)
And yet, here we are.
Bah.
I can’t argue, or communicate, with people who deny their own existance.
It just can’t be done.
It is completely, utterly, pointless.
What I should do, is just: Form a society.
I should form a special society: “The people who think they’re Aware.”
This is, more and more, the conclusion I come to.
We should just make a secret hand-shake, and go from there.
Refuse to talk with people who don’t think that they’re Aware. We’ll reserve the capital letter A for ourselves, or capital C, or something. Whatever. It’s so frustrating arguing with you wishy-washy types.
I have another story.
This brings in my best friend Phil again.
He’s with you guys.
I said: “Look, if there’s something that says that you don’t exist, whatever it is- Scientists, Philosophers, Spiritualists, Buddhists, I don’t care who it is – if you’ve got someone saying You don’t exist, I want you to just say Bullshit!”
Just Immediately!
There shouldn’t be any thinking to it: You just say: Bullshit!
It’s got to be like that! No philosophizing, no spiritualizing, no meditating, no thinking, no reasoning.
Des Carte took it too far. He said, “I think, Therefore I am.”
Well, that’s taking it too far, because that leaves room for putting the concept of “thinking” on a leash.
So throw that aside.
Just say: “I AM.”
And no, I’m not referencing any religious sects or deities or anything like that.
It’s just: Simple fact.
If you can’t assert “I am,” then I can’t do philosophy with you.
It’s as simple as that.
I can trade with you, I can program with you, I can go to the grocery store with you. I can have movies with you. If I think you’re attractive, I can have sex with you. I can do advanced math with you. I can play video games with you. I can talk with you. I can make robots with you.
But I can’t philosophize with you.
Because, ultimately, I’m able to see something, that you can’t. Something very fundamental.
If you say, “Oh, sure I exist, …” Bzzt. Wrong.
Because you’ve got some sort of tricky condition up you’re sleeve.
Yep! You’re going to say: “But matter is just all there possibly could be.”
Because: You know what? I know, I know, from first-hand experience, that what I am, is not matter.
The thing that I am, the essence of what I am, the thing that’s been here all along- it’s not matter.
And it’s not even a pattern.
It’s a something.
It’s within bounds, as a possibility, that this thing that I am, can only arise out of matter, or some particular pattern of energy, or this particular arrangement of neurons. Or out of a pattern of computation. Or whatever.
That is: A POSSIBILITY.
And if you want to talk with me about that possibility, then I’m glad, and I invite you into my house, and we talk over dinner, and you and I are philosophizing.
But the moment- the moment- the instant you start saying: “But Lion, you see, you don’t really exist. You’re just a bunch of curvy equations running on a computer called reality, and there’s no actual “experience” in there that needs explaining. You’re just a non-discrete chaotic state equations of emotion and thought-
That’s when you’re either (A) actually a robot, incapable of talking with me about things that you don’t actually experience, or (B) just taking things too far. You’re what Jaron Lanier (God curse him, for the rest of his idiot ideas, but God bless his soul, he at least knows what Awareness is) calls: “Someone who’s pretending to be asleep.”
That is, you can’t be woken, because, you’re just playing “asleep.” You’re playing this game where you go, “Oh! Let’s pretend that there couldn’t be (as a first principle) anything that’s not explainable Empirically.” And the game has more rules. It goes: “Oh! Let’s pretend that if you would be special, then ergo, you’re wrong.”
Copernicus proved that, ya’ know? He proved it. Mathematically, even.
Wha?
Yah. If you think you’re special, it’s not based in reason.
It’s based in one of the following:
“Incapable of being Skeptical?”
“Yeah! Of course! See? You’ve got it written all over you.”
“What?”
“Just up there.”
“Where?”
“Above. In the text. Where you said that nobody could prove you wrong.”
“Oh, you mean…”
“Yeah: Where you said, Nobody can prove I don’t exist. Don’t you see it?”
“Ah.”
“Yep. See. You’re anti-skeptic. To the bone. You believe you can just walk in here, willy nilly, and assert: I am a ghost, and you cannot explain me, and I am unprovable. You can say: There is an invisible rock here. None of you can see it, but me. I am an invisible rock.”
Well, maybe that’s what I am then. Maybe I’m just: a Geist.
Maybe, earnestly, sincerely, the rest of you are not Geists. Maybe you are all just the things that Geists observe, and that is why you cannot relate to being a Geist.
How can I prove you wrong? You are not wrong!