WikiTing
Earlier tings are on the ting-wiki
On 2005-10-23, sunday, 18:00 UTC we had ting45.
We used Gobby and teamspeak.
participants:
ip for this gobby session 84.189.68.1
TOPICS:
MINUTES:
- connecting with TeamSpeak
- introductions
- topic call
- Urgen
- fan of the ESPians (a fan)
- "Index Phrase Extraction" (below)
- Channel/Medium Negotiation (Voice, text, which window, …)
- Voice good for technical instruction: "Please turn to page 14…"?
What is "Index Phrase Extraction"?
- locking on phrases, index keys, ….
- negotiation between recognized phrases/symbols - meaning
- working on representing intention
- agreement on terms, an index term, a definition
- automatic extraction of key phrases from text
- phrase - additional meaningful information? "intent?"
- phrase has semantic value
- applications
- working on getting good results when you search for a phrase
- "consensus engine" - way for a group of people to come to a shared understanding (via search engine?)
- among humans: "negotiation"
- machine-machine, machine-human phrase negotiation
- a Physics professor talking with (say) a Biologist
- "you're approaching from this context, I'm suggesting a different context"
- "context" or "semantic based" context routing
- Amount of information growing past ability to index it.
- basic principle of communicating/phrase-identifying/negotiation and even agreement across complex mental models
- elimination of unnecessary problems
- what seperates a necessary from an unnecessary problem?
- difference in assignment of symbol and meaning
- mismap = misunderstanding = unnecessary problem
- sensory "communication" as well- looking at a tree, for example
- (lion & Helmut's tree)
- parts of Helmut's tree
- poetic frame
- botanists frame
- ecology frame
- coming to an agreement and assigning a term for the concepts
- so we're talking about people who want to communicate to share language
- an assistant device would…
- help people who want to make environmentally sound decisions, …
- help people in government understand information, …
- so, if you're googling for something,
- google would negotiate with you over what you're looking for
- "latent semantic indexing"
- enable "search history feature" in google
- N Cal
- When doing indexing, attempting to refine the map,
- ensure accurate representation.
- Not right 1st, 2nd, 3rd time, ….
- Tracking changes, track direction of changes,
- able to predict more accurate intent with time
- "abstracted vector" – goal of process
- Also called: "the negotiation process"
- 2-way process; informing a search, and receiving teaching/education
- teaches communication as well
- Berry Picking Model of Information Retrieval: http://www.communitywiki.org/en/BerryPickingModelOfInformationRetrieval http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/bates/berrypicking.html
- More people understand, more responsibility they can take in the world
- Once you have this kind of stuff, you wonder: "How do you know that information you see is authentic?" "Trustable?"
- Identity, Web of Trust, …
- Fantasy worlds with internal integrity, but "aren't really true"
- These problems are related (how?)
- "Virtual Value" – money markets for Lindens
- "Negotiated Search"
- fooling the system (Amazon users connecting Christian books w Gay porn)
- Semantic Web v Web 2.0
- "The Message is the Medium"
- The Mirror
- Self-reflection
- understanding the brain, mind, …
- understanding understanding
- cybernetics, communication & control systems, FEEDBACK
- http://www.thegreatstory.org/
- (urgen on break)
- Where is this appearning and where is this going?
- urgen: Government first (everything is political, political words)
- "Santa Cruz" = political
- "Semantic Routing" – negotiation of governance
- Semantic Routing:
- "It would be nice if I could find this if I wanted to."
- following the network of people with related interests
- (but, it's pretty labor intensive)
- shouldn't there be a faster way of doing this
- "Semantic Indexing Robots" – suss out interests, values, collecting info
- (exocortex - Accelerando - Charles Stross - http://www.accelerando.org/)
- Two steps
- knitting together people's maps
- using robots to search the map
- going through networks of people vs. semantic routing
- ontology selection? translation? = semantic routing (?)
- "ahh… next year." - SVG wiki
TING TIMES & CALENDARING:
- Sunday, Thursday
- urgen looking for way to integrate with Internet community//
- TeamSpeak channel negotiation
- RecentChanges camp standardization
- iCalendar events
- - trigger other mediums
- manage voice streams
- KPFA.org – DJs complain of lack of voice space (more producers than space)
- micropowered radio transmitter community
- votes used to select sound streams - call in by cell, comment queued, …
- community based discussions over the queue, advertise yard sale, etc.,.
- urgen (by Santa Rosa by San Fransisco) local chamber of commerce directed urgen to funding agencies & radio licensing info
- Coordinating with iCalendar
- http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird.html
- Lion or Alex or somebody with a server will run SchoolBell?
- Bayle & Urgen conversation:
- World Clock Meeting Planner http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
- someone working on a TeamSpeak replacement (FL/OSS)
- Tings on S23, 1 on CW
GOBBY REQUESTS:
- Larger fonts available
- irc connected to the chat
- hyperlinks
- export to wiki page (readable by URL) like on MoonEdit
lion thoughts:
- constructing good explanationst we are doing (him included)
- FOAF
mattis notes
- approaching the HiveMind is not a battle, it's evolution.
- I think, alex loves what we are doing (we is him included).
Thanks to pSycoRe of the s23 seti folks for the wiki/ting room on their teamspeak server (the ip and pw are not published on wiki, you find them on the gobby life-document or we tell you in #onebigsoup before the ting).
teamspeak with push to talk disciplines. You wait til the person is ready and the lamp shuts off, then you push your button and talk.
We did what humans do when they can write and have (half duplex) audio contact, we talked and took notes (Lion took notes). Urgen and lion discussed, I made a comment here and now showing that I'm following, already deeply content of having successfully prepared this first voice-ting when it started. Urgen has a calm way to speak that is very pleasant to follow. Half way through Bayle joined in. We tinged for an hour or two (rather two). Good ting, as usual.
What happens in TeamSpeak when two people talk at once? Do they overlay or does only one get through?
For example, a few times last Ting I pushed the button when I chuckled while someone else was talking. Did that cut them off, or was it OK?
see TeamSpeak, and thanks for creating that page btw.